Healing Begins on a Redwood Walk

Season 5, Episode 5 – Healing Begins on a Redwood Walk

SPEAKERS

Monica Carcamo-Binetti (host)

Dr. R. David Rebanal (guest)

Rizelle Jugarap (guest)

[Intro Music]

[00:00:10] Dr. R. David Rebanal

All peoples in some point in their ancestry, were in touch with nature for survival and for health and for healing. And so that’s why the project’s called Reclaiming Nature because for certain parts of our communities, there is a disparity in who’s accessing the, the benefits, the health benefits of nature.

[00:00:29] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

That was Dr. David Rebanal sharing about the Reclaiming Nature Project. I had the privilege of chatting with Dr. Rebanal, an associate professor of public health at San Francisco State University, and one of the co-investigators on the study, as well as Rizelle Jugarap, a master’s student at San Francisco State University, who has been deeply involved in the project from the start.

The study set out to investigate whether walking in nature could serve as a stress reducing intervention for Black, Latine and Filipinx Transitional age youth participants took their nature walks at Peters Creek, a Save the Redwoods League Health property next to Portola Redwood State Park. Scientists and partners hypothesize that those walks might even improve markers of cellular health. 

Reclaiming Nature is a collaboration we at Save The Redwoods League, we’re honored to support so that young people could experience and at times be introduced to the Redwoods in a safe and supporting way. 

Together Rizelle and Dr. Rebanal share how walking in the old growth forest and the overall experience influence the participants, but also themselves. 

[00:01:41] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

Good morning. Hello. Hello. Episode five. I cannot believe this is the fifth episode that we’re recording. We’re back here in the Save of the Redwoods League’s San Francisco office, and I’m really excited about this episode.

I have two integral contributors of the Reclaiming Nature study. I’ve done some research on the project that y’all been working on, and I am really, genuinely so curious to get into what this is all about, how this all started. 

Rizelle, I’ll start with you. In your own words, what is the reclaiming nature research study and what was hypothesized?

[00:02:22] Rizelle Jugarap

The Reclaiming Nature Study was an initiative to investigate walking in nature as a possible intervention for embodied stress in Black, African American, Latinx, Filipinx transitional age youth. It was hypothesized that walking in nature could possibly serve as a stress reducing intervention and improve telomere health in these populations.

[00:02:45] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

And what data did the study collect from participants? 

[00:02:50] Rizelle Jugarap

The data that we’re working with for the Reclaiming Nature project, I would say is quite ambitious, and that’s because the data set is unique in the way that it combines biological, psychological, and behavioral variables all into one data set. The biological data that was donated included hair and saliva samples for measuring cortisol and relative telomere length. The psychological data that was donated included surveys, such as skills measuring discrimination, critical consciousness, and so on. And behavioral data included things like weekly average steps taken. 

During the project hair samples were donated by participants as a way to measure chronic stress. Because although there’s other ways to measure cortisol, which was our measure for stress, such as saliva or blood, these are more like snapshots in time of a person’s cortisol or acute stress measures. While hair allows us to measure chronic stress because it’s accumulated cortisol over multiple time points.

[00:03:55] Monica Carcamo-Binetti: 

Wow. I had no idea. And you mentioned a word, “telomere”. Am I saying it correctly? 

[00:04:00] Rizelle Jugarap 

Yes. 

[00:04:01] Monica Carcamo-Binetti: 

Telomere. So, can you tell me what that is? 

[00:04:03] Rizelle Jugarap 

Yes, so similar to the hard plastic piece at the end of your shoelace called the aglet, similar to like how an aglet protects your shoelaces from fraying, telomeres are the caps at the ends of our chromosomes, and they protect the integrity of our DNA and they naturally shorten with time as our cells divide and as we age. But this Telomere shortening can be accelerated by various factors such as chronic stress.

[00:04:29] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

Dr. David Rebanal is also here with us today. So, I understand that there’s another component to the study, a participatory component where the participants played more of an active role. This is where your part of the study comes into play, correct?

[00:04:45] Dr. R. David Rebanal

That’s right. That’s right. 

[00:04:46] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

Dr. Rebanal, tell us what is PhotoVoice and how was this methodology used in this project? 

[00:04:54] Dr. R. David Rebanal

The component of the Project that I led was focused on more on the environment, right? So, as Rizelle mentioned, we looked at the role that an intervention that included walking in nature or being exposed to nature impacted sort of the biological aspects measured at the cellular level as well as the individual behavioral components and mental health and psychological. And we know that health is maximized by addressing all of those, but also including the environmental conditions in which we all live, work, play, et cetera. And so that’s where my component comes in, and we wanted to look at the conditions that would make being in nature more welcoming for BIPOC transitional age youth. 

We know that communities of color often lived in nature deprived areas. They don’t live as close to nature as their white counterparts. We also know that there are cultural issues related to that. People don’t feel comfortable when they go out into nature for lots of reasons. They don’t see people like them. They don’t feel like they grew up doing this, being in nature. They feel intimidated by all the gear that you need to go on a hike. And so, we wanted to sort of address and break that down. 

And so PhotoVoice is a, is a methodology and research that combines visual data or photographs with the participants point of views. And it can be more accessible as a way of getting their, what they’re thinking, what they’re experiencing. And as an environmental justice and social epidemiologist researcher, PhotoVoice has been a great way to document and understand environmental conditions.

And so, we also felt that it was much more, accessible for folks of color who don’t participate in research, who may be intimidated by answering questions all the time. And so, this was a way to get information that’s valid and scientifically respected, but also get into their perspectives, which was a really important component of the research.

[00:07:02] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

And what about this study drew you to contribute to it? How did that shape your methods to understand the mechanisms of how diverse groups experience nature or the Redwoods specifically using relational lenses like PhotoVoice? 

[00:07:21] Dr. R. David Rebanal 

For many reasons. One, my colleagues, Dr. Leti Magaña, and Dr.

Charlotte Tate wanted, had this vision of this transdisciplinary research, right?. A biology researcher, a psychology research, and I’m a public health researcher. So, I was drawn to that because we know that there’s many components to maximizing health. I was also drawn to the idea that this call for proposals funded by the NIH was meant to be transformative. That was meant to do something out of the ordinary. And as someone who’s been worked in public health for a long time, I’m drawn to solutions in solving problems, not just documenting the inequities that we already know exist. 

And we use PhotoVoice again because it was accessible. And I also think it’s powerful and transformative, just like the grant wants us to do, because the idea was that through participating, you’d also grow, you’d also gain perspective. You’d also learn about what was existing to prevent people of color from getting into nature as much as they wanted to. And then equally important to do something about it. So, through participating in this component of the study, the participants, the young people, would also be able to feel some sort of agency to affect their communities for the better and that was an intentional part of the study. 

[00:08:47] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

Two things that you said really stand out to me that you’re giving these students in the study agency, and what does that translate to for the future? If you love something, you want to take care of it. And you want to contribute to its wellness, and you want to bring other people to experience it. And I think that that’s really important. 

And the second thing that you said was that you wanted to bring solutions because you are right. There’s so much chatter of inequities or things that are just not going right, but we’re just talking about those things. We can talk about them forever, right? And it’s important to talk about them, but how do we solve for them?

What do we do? What is our end result here? Where are we? Where are the solution-based people that can come in and really make an impact? 

What were some of the questions that you asked the participants to reflect on for the Photovoice exercises? 

[00:09:49] Dr. R. David Rebanal: 

Yeah, so what we had to do was recruit the participants after they completed the walks in the, in the redwoods, and we worked with them to learn about this PhotoVoice methodology, right? There is a tradition around it. We wanted to be scientifically valid. And so, they went through first a training, and then they were asked to go out and choose a nature activity on their own. Using their cell phones, they were asked to answer a few questions and think about them through the lens of their phones. 

What would make nature spaces more welcoming to people like, you know, yourselves and your communities? What would make it more inclusive? And what is healing in nature mean to you? 

They were also to answer questions about what they wanted us, the viewers, to see. What was the meaning behind what they captured when answering those research questions. 

[00:10:42] Monica Carcamo-Binetti: 

Yeah, and you not only took all of that information and reflections from the participants, you actually built an exhibit around it and it was presented at a community event for Public Health Week.

What convinced you that the student’s pictures and reflections belonged in an exhibit?

[00:11:01] Dr. R. David Rebanal: 

The data should not just exist for the researchers. It shouldn’t just exist in journal articles, although that’s also important. Right? We, we intentionally wanted to go back into the community to inform the community, to inspire dialogue about the very questions that were asked and the very issues that were addressed.

And we thought during National Public Health Week, which is always the first full week in April, why not build an exhibit where the community members can learn about what we’ve, what we’re learning. 

But it also was important, I think, to the participants again, who all identify as BIPOC to see their work being shown to the community. And I think that also is a transformative process because for some, this is the first time that their voice, right, in their work is being shared with others on this topic. 

[00:12:02] Monica Carcamo-Binetti:

I love that. 

And I’ve actually never been to Peters Creek. So, Rizelle, I’m interested to hear what it was like being out there and what did you in particular like to do out there?

[00:12:12] Rizelle Jugarap

Oh, yes. Peters Creek is a beautiful nature site. It’s old growth redwood forest, so these trees are just so unbelievably tall and the walk is like this beautiful green, luscious, slightly downhill walk. And at the very bottom, like the name suggests, there’s a creek where participants and of course staff and students included, could wade in. This was especially such a treat when it was very hot when we would go in the summer. So, that was definitely one of the favorite parts of the trips that I would do. Of course, I’m there to work, but I would always take the chance to wait in the creek if I had the time. 

[00:12:48] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

Nice. And what is your relationship with redwoods prior to this?

[00:12:53] Rizelle Jugarap

Prior, I was almost resistant against going out in nature. I prefer to stay inside as much as possible. I didn’t like physical activity or exercise or things that made me feel sticky or exhausted in any way. But after the first walk, I was so dead tired. I was trying to think of like all sorts of excuses to never come back. I couldn’t even walk up the hill without stopping multiple times. My students had to cheer me on to get me up there. And yet, when it came time to pick who was going to go on the next walk and the next walk after that, I said I was going to go every single time. And it quickly became something that I really fell in love with and was looking forward to every month.

[00:13:37] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

Isn’t that amazing? I am very curious that you used the word that you were “resistant”. It’s not just, I don’t like it, or that’s not for me. You were just like resisting, nope. Don’t want to be sticky, don’t want to be uncomfortable, and then when you got out there, right? Like it, it changed just being out in the redwoods.

Listening to y’all talk about Peters Creek and your experiences there with the study and yourselves being there, would it have made a difference if the study was done elsewhere, meaning that Peters Creek is a held property, meaning that it’s, it was reserved just for y’all to come in and do this. 

What if it wasn’t? What if y’all had done the study somewhere else, that there were other factors involved when you were doing your research? 

[00:14:28] Rizelle Jugarap 

The fact that Peters Creek was a held property was very important because it helped to control the space for other events that could have some influence on a, on our measures, specifically around the psychological measures. Could be an area where having the general public be part of this space could have some effect on our participants and their responses. But more importantly, I feel like if we had done the project at a different nature site that wasn’t reserved for just the study there’s a chance that participants might not have been able to have as much comfort or the same sense of belonging that we were able to build within Peters Creek.

[00:15:12] Dr. R. David Rebanal: 

You know, one, one of my friends who doesn’t know much about research at all said, “wouldn’t you increase their stress if you just dropped them off in the middle of some state park with a bunch of people that weren’t like them, and they’ve never been there before?” You know, to that effect, that’s exactly what Rizelle was talking about, is that, while there was a little bit more controlled, it actually did allow us to look at the effects of just the intervention that is the exposure to nature with other folks like us, just to see what do we like, right? Definitely could have affected their psychological, measures, but even, even potentially their biological markers. I think it was a really great benefit to have Save the Redwoods partner with us to allow us to use that, use that space.

[00:16:05] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

Something else though that I, I wanted to talk about was that the federal grant was pulled before the project was completed. 

How did that impact the study and what did that teach you about resilience in research? 

[00:16:19] Rizelle Jugarap

Yeah, so very luckily, we had already gathered all the data and collected participant donations before the grant was pulled, which means that we were still able to complete the necessary parts of the study that very, very, very much needed funding.

However, this did kind of affect the project in the way that it hurt a lot of, of our staff who lost their positions basically as soon as they found out about it. And it truly did hurt the morale, of course, of everybody on the team, especially students as well, who were affected by cuts to funding, even in like their other research endeavors.

But the fact that, not just myself, but the students continued to persevere and continue to do the work was something that was really great to see. 

[00:17:10] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

Yeah, definitely. And I think that resilience is admirable, right? That no matter what gets thrown at you that you keep going. 

What is the current status of the study and when will the results be available for dissemination?

[00:17:25] Rizelle Jugarap 

The exact timeline for when the results will be available for dissemination is a bit unknown. The cut to the grant, kind of increase the uncertainty of things because of course this does come with the loss of staff. A lot of staff of, unfortunately, as much as they want to provide for the community do have to prioritize their livelihoods and whatnot. The data is all, has all been collected, but currently the analyses is basically underway. 

[00:17:53] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

That totally makes sense and I, I definitely understand. As much as I’d like a cute little preview, I definitely understand. 

What do y’all hope to see in the result? And how can we use this study to garner attention or support for protecting natural areas like Peters Creek for public green spaces?

[00:18:13] Rizelle Jugarap

Overall, for the results, we hope to see that there are health benefits to being out in nature, and that nature is a viable resource for reducing stress in our youth. Additionally, we hope that by seeing results like that, we’re able to make a strong case as for why nature and redwood spaces need to be available for our youth and for our communities in general.

And we hope that by showing that, these spaces are made to be more accessible, more easily. And that’s because when you think about redwoods and state parks, these are often spaces that, you know, that’s like a whole day trip. A regular Muni bus doesn’t go all the way out there. And that kind of excludes an entire population of people from being able to benefit from spaces like these, especially when you add in other social factors where people might not feel safe or feel welcome to take part in being in spaces like these. So, by a, being able to show that being able to access these green spaces is vital for maintaining community health. We’re able to increase accessibility for these spaces for everybody. 

[00:19:22] Dr. R. David Rebanal

Yeah. And in addition to that, I hope that we are able to sort of interrupt this narrative that being in nature is solely a white thing to do. Like it be, like that it only belongs to certain segments of our population. Um, no. 

There is a very accessible form of improving your health and that is going on into nature, which is accessible, should be accessible to everyone. So, I hope that part of the study not only interrupts that narrative, that certain segments of the population can’t belong or don’t belong, but I also think the results can inform even policies or investments. We need more programs to cater to communities of color. We need more people hired who work in these spaces to look like other communities. We need ways for students and young people to get to nature, right? And all of those benefit, the environment because they’ll hopefully more likely to take care of the environment for the future. It benefits the population’s health overall. Would save costs to healthcare if we can find other ways to keep people healthy. And then improve opportunities for health that is decrease the disparities or the in inequities in health. And so that’s what I hope these findings are going to help contribute to.

That is the solutions for improved health and health equity. 

[00:20:52] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

Thank you for that. I’m going to hand y’all a magic wand. You guys ready?

So, if you could design the next stage of this study with your magic wand with unlimited funding, what questions about BIPOC, community health and green spaces would you want to chase first?

[00:21:12] Rizelle Jugarap

Me personally, I would love to see this project expanded to be longer and for the walks to be even more frequent. Of course, that comes with its own possible issues of participant retention and of course accessibility. You know, everybody has lives and other responsibilities, and it is a commitment to take an entire day to go out on a nature walk. 

But to have that opportunity be something that we could offer would be something like a dream. I’d love to also look into how this sort of stress reducing nature-based intervention could apply to multiple generations. I think that that would be something really interesting, especially like for maybe older populations might have different sort of connections with nature or different benefits of nature than we might see in younger populations, for example. I think that would be very interesting to look into and also opens up the opportunity to access the redwoods and green spaces to even more people, which is the goal. 

[00:22:16] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

I love that. I think that in one of the episodes that we spoke to, one of the guests mentioned that there is, you know, some disparity that there is groups of youth that there’s a lot of, you know, focus on it. But then there’s also the elderly population.

Right? That they are also marginalized in some ways and they don’t have accessibility to get out to the redwoods. So, you mentioned Muni doesn’t go all the way up to Humboldt County, right? So how, you know, could we expand this to, to a larger population group? I think that that’s, that’s really important too. 

Dr. Rebanal, what about you? 

[00:22:50] Dr. R. David Rebanal 

Yeah. Just to build off what Rizelle said is expand it and make it more possible for people to participate. So, Rizelle talked about elderly populations. I would even, also go younger, and that is even high school students. What if this was a program or a curriculum that was part of every high school and they, you know, measured their own, we got ways to measure their own biomarkers to show themselves that there is benefits. But also go through this process of trying to understand what’s going on societally, right. About why certain communities are deprived of this.

[00:23:30] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

While Rizelle and Dr. Rebanal were not actual participants in the study, I am curious if the, if each of you can talk to me a little bit more about how this project and this research impacted you personally.

[00:23:46] Rizelle Jugarap

I think that, and I had the very great opportunity of being able to continuously go on the walks over multiple cohorts instead of just the three walks within one cohort. But I think something that gradually shifted in me was that after the first visit, I really got to, because I was forced to go into that space, I was like, as resistant as I was, I was kind of forced to experience what being in the old growth redwoods at Peters Creek was like and able to experience the benefits of it. Seeing all of that, that green, seeing how the sunlight peaks through the tree leaves, seeing the banana slugs. And I don’t like touching slimy things, but I still didn’t touch it, but I would still look at it and I’m like, wow, that is pretty neat.

And it was nice to also be able to talk leisurely with the students and the other staff for the project and whatnot. And as tired as I was and as much as I really struggled to walk back up the hill at the end of each walk, by the time I got home, maybe it’s something similar to runner’s high, I was definitely feeling like, no that is something I would like to go back to. And so I would keep going again and again and again, and by towards the end of our last cohort, towards the end of the very last walk. I was able to walk up the hill without stopping even once. And I felt like for me, that was a big landmark for how I had changed both, of course, not just physically, although physically, but also mentally. And how I viewed being in the spaces and how it turned into something where I was truly dreading having to go out into the heat and walk up and down a hill to something that I really treasured and look forward to.

[00:25:39] Dr. R. David Rebanal

For the, from the second part of, for the second part of the study, one of the quotes that sits with me was someone that said, in reflecting on their process was, you know, doing the PhotoVoice phase that is, going out into nature, reflecting on our research questions and sort of why certain communities may not feel included or, or safe and how to make it better, that the, the process in of itself was healing for them. That they were now able to recognize maybe what that resistance, where that resistance was coming from and how to find better ways. Now that they’ve been exposed to the redwoods they said this could be a, this is should be a part of my sort of regular routine that is go into nature. You know, students get stressed around finals, around looking for a job, around their future, but that being in nature is a healthy way of coping with stress. And that bringing, you know, doing it connects them to people if they do it with others in a different way. You’re unplugged. You’re not necessarily glued to your phone and interacting, but you have to interact with each other, in different ways. And that this project then also led to a greater sense of sort of purpose. And that is how do we use these, how do my, how does my contribution to this study contribute then to sort of greater changes?

That is how I make it helpful for everyone. 

[00:27:04] Monica Carcamo-Binetti

Rizelle Jugarap. Dr. David Rebanal. Reclaiming Nature Project. 

Thank y’all so much for an inspirational conversation. Your efforts, your dedication. It just really, really seeps through and I, I cannot explain to you how amazing this is. 

From a reclaiming standpoint, we’re out there. We’re reclaiming being out in nature, not only with the efforts that you’re putting forth, but also with the I’ll Go If You Go podcast, that’s really what it’s all about. Highlighting profiles just like the two of you so that other people listening that maybe don’t feel like they’re being represented out there, are. And we always say, I’ll go if you go, but I’ll wait if you wait. So, we’re looking forward to getting updates from you. So, thanks so much again. 

[00:27:55] Rizelle Jugarap

Thank you.

[00:27:56] Dr. R. David Rebanal

My pleasure. Thank you. 

[Closing Music]

[00:27:58] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

The Reclaiming Nature project brought young people from BIPOC communities into the heart of the redwoods to ask a simple and powerful question, could walking among these ancient trees ease stress, and nurture health? 

Participants were given the chance to walk in nature and reclaim it for themselves. What we’ve heard today reminds us that the redwoods are not silent. They’re influencers guiding us through belonging, resilience, and healing. The full results of this study are still to come, but already the hope is clear.

If we had a magic wand here at the League, one that gives us unlimited resources, we would open this experience to everyone. We would fill even more buses and trails to give more people the chance to stand among the giants and to feel the influence of the forest, to reclaim something in us all. 

While that magic wand arrives, we will continue to support studies and stories that reveal how these forests sustain our health, our communities, and our sense of connection. 

Until next time, may you find a moment to step outside, to breathe deeply, and to let nature’s oldest influencers remind you of your own strength.

[00:29:19] Monica Carcamo-Binetti 

Thanks for joining us on I’ll Go If You Go, a Save the Redwoods League podcast. This season is produced by Leslie Parra and hosted by Monica Carcamo-Binetti. Edited and sound engineered by Mac Cardona at cWave Media.

Thank you to Mariela Gándara and Caleb Castle for graphic design and media support, and to Adam Kaplan for tech support. Theme song and music by Nhu Nguyen and Anni Feng. 

You can find seasons one through four, wherever you listen to podcasts or on

savetheredwoods.org where you can also find transcripts of each episode.

If you like our show, please rate and review. It helps more people find us and join in on the conversation. For behind-the-scenes and bonus content, follow us on Instagram @IllGoIfYouGoPod. If you have comments or questions, you can email us at outreach@savetheredwoods.org. We’d love to hear from you and maybe even share your comments on the podcast. 

I look forward to when our paths cross again, on the hiking trail or beyond.

[Final Music]